What is the difference between a 12 V 12 AH deep-cycle battery and a 12 v 12 ah AGMbattery?
I have a Sonic Scooter by the Scooter store and need batteries
Glenna M C
Question answered by TXm42
Here's some info about Batteries,,,it's good stuff/valid Info,,,no BS or mis-info,,no sale pitch.
Do realize however,that any recommendations found within are regarding a Particular Application which may be May Not be IDEAL for YOUR application.
AGM's are latest-greatest,,,,and DO offer lots of advantages.
For an Electric Vehicle,,,or ANYTHING which runs on "Total-Loss" system,,,,,
A Deep Cycle Battery is still generally Best overall,,in my opinion.
"Total Loss" means ,,,the Battery gets Drained by the operation without receiving any CHARGING while IN Operation
A Flashlight,,Portable Radio,Boat Trolling Motor,,,Most Electric Vehicles,,,Golf Carts,Scooters,WheelChairs,,,and so on.......
These are examples of "Total Loss".
They RUN straight off Battery without receiving any Charging at same time.
Then the BATTS get ReCharged when Unit is OUT of service and No Load is being drawn from the Battery
Cars,Motorcycles,,,etc have built-in Generators/Alternators which "Constantly" Charge their Battery while the Vehicle Runs,,,
and the Charging System usually helps Share the Electrical Load with the Battery as the vehicle is in operation.
Anyway....NORMALLY for things like Scooters,,,
You Go Farther per AH (Amp / Hour) on a Deep Cycle Battery.
And,,,as the Battery begins to drain down and weaken ,,,Deep Cycle Batteries Usually maintain a Higher Level of Strength down to the pint where they're "dead".
So,,you can think of them as running STRONGER LONGER than other Types.
Theoretically,,,a "12AH battery is a 12AH Battery"-----
It'll Provide Current for 12 Hours at a 1 Amp per Hour Drain Rate.
And that's pretty much True.
But the Deep Cycle's remain a bit Stronger as they get down towards the end of their capacity.
Another Primary Benefit,,,mostly from their CONSTRUCTION,,,,, is that Deep Cycles are Made to accept More Recharge Cycles.
They DO Last LONGER in Applications of Constant DIS-charge/Recharge cycles
AGMs,,,CAN get very near the Life of a usual Deep Cycle.
But they "get there" from a different route.
The Effects of their Construction & Function increase their life sorta as an "added bonus".
Compared to DeepCycles which are Deliberately Constructed for purpose of Increased Life.
Hope that helps.
*** Shop around for Batts,,,prices can vary a Bunch.
Japanese/USA/European batteries are considered to be Better/Last Longer than Chinese ones.
Tuff to say which is the better value,,,,I dont have any experience in Real-World Comparrisons of enough examples to say which is better.
But I do know that Many Chinese batteries do not last long at all.
So,,,even at perhaps "Half the Price" they MAY not be a bargain??
Most Probably your Scooter CAME with a Chinese battery,,,so You can reasonably expect that to be Typical of "worst case scenario".
If You Do happen to end up with a Chinese Batt,,,it should be approx the same as what You've experienced with your Original Batt.
I hope I'm not making them sound Terrible,,,just trying to get across that they are Normally on the lower end of Quality/Life Scale because they are ECONOMY models--made to be "cheapies"/Inexpensive.
NOT that they are actually BAD...OK??LOL
Certified Preowned Honda with aftermarket parts already installed?
I bought a certified preowned 05 Accord 2 months ago yesterday. Along with the preowned certification, I also paid for the Honda Care extra coverage. The car has an aftermarket alarm, aftermarket headlights and a body kit. I bought a radio and had it professionally installed. The installer told me that whoever had it before had already run the cabling for an amp and replaced the speakers, so I was like cool. 3 out of the last 5 mornings and the batery wouldn't start. I tested the battery and the battery is fine, so I brought it to the dealer.
My question is if any of the problems are a result of the aftermarket equipment, will I be covered? Should I raise hell with the dealer?
I tested the battery, and that was fine. I was thinking the alternator as well, however my concern is if the dealer says that it is the alternator or another electrical issue, they will say that it isn't covered because the aftermarket parts contributed to the problem.
When I would try to start the car, it would sometimes click, and sometimes do nothing. The second time it happened, the battery was so dead that the power locks didn't work.
Hope that's a little bit more clear
Turns out the alarm was "parasitic". It was drawing excessive power. When they disconnected it, no more power draws above normal with a full start or in acc
I took it up with the salesman, not service, because I know they have no control over what a salesman told me, they just know it's broken and they figure out why and charge what they're told. It just angered me because it was "honda certified preowned" and this should have been detected during certification process, as electrical, alternator and battery are included. Also, this is the second time i've been there for an issue that should have been caught through certification. The first time was 2 days after I bought it and it was bad brake pads.
In the end the issue was fixed, I now have the factory alarm, and although they tried to charge me, with persistence with my salesman (who is now a manager) I was able to get the fee waved, and a full electric checkup.
Thanks for the answers.
Question answered by billh
You state that you "tested the battery". What exactly does that mean? Unfortunately, for a lot of people testing the battery means going out with a voltmeter, and measuring the battery voltage with no-load on the battery, and the engine not running. The assumption is then made that anything above 12 V means that the battery is fine. This is, needless to say, not accurate. Certainly a battery does need to produce a voltage, but it needs to maintain that voltage even under a fairly high current flow such as cranking the engine over. Just for the sake of accuracy, of course your battery wouldn't start three out of the last five mornings because batteries don't start or run, they are simply energy storage devices used to crank and start the engine in the morning. I'm assuming that what you mean is the vehicle/engine didn't start three out of the last five mornings and you are suspecting that the battery is the cause. I think it's very likely that one of the aftermarket devices on your vehicle is putting a parasitic load on the battery overnight and causing it to discharge. Parasitic load problems can be miserable to try to track down especially if there are aftermarket devices on the vehicle such as alarm system, remote starter, etc, audio systems. It is difficult to say whether or not the warranty that you bought will cover these items (but it is doubtful. When a dealer decides what extended/used car warranty to offer they do so based on how much money they will make on each warranty sold. They don't care if it is good coverage or not, and the buyer almost never reads all the fine print which comes with extended warranties as every used car warranty is different regarding what they do and do not cover. As regards "raising hell with the dealer" I would refrain from that in the same fashion I would refrain from giving crap to a waiter/waitress who is serving you at a restaurant. It rarely helps, And I have seen 1 Guy I worked with who was given major grief by a customer for something totally outside his control. once the customer had gone away, he went over to his lunchbox, split his tuna sandwich in half and put 1/2 under the rear seat. Realize that the service department in a typical dealership has no input on the extended warranties that the sales department chooses to offer to the customers.By the time an issue arises the sales slug has long ago spent his commission check, and he expects serice to just take care of it, at a financial loss if they have to. In addition the service department is forced to work on systems that they have had absolutely no training in, such as aftermarket alarm systems, aftermarket sound systems and remote starter's. You do the best you can but when someone else has messed around with something it makes diagnosis and repair a bit more complicated. One thing that would be very nice to know is; on the three out of five days that the vehicle would not start, what did happen when you tried to start the engine in the morning. Was there a clicking, did the engine crank but fail to start?
For your sake, and for the sake of many that I see on this subject of cars not starting I'm going to go over the high points of starting/charging/battery.
In order for a car engine to start in the morning the engine is equipped with a starter. The starter is an electric motor which has a movable gear. When the key is turned an electromagnet on the starter causes this movable gear to engage with a larger gear on the flex plate (automatic transmission), or the flywheel (manual transmission). When this year has engaged an electrical connection is made between the battery cable and the starter causing the electric starter motor to crank the engine. While the engine as cranking fuel should be delivered to the engine either by the carburetor (older cars) or by the fuel injectors. Also spark should be supplied to the spark plugs by means of the ignition system. If the battery doesn't have sufficient charge to do this you will typically noticed this as a slow cranking speed, or sometimes just a clicking sound when you turn the key. If you hear neither cranking, nor clicking it suggests that the battery is completely dead, or there is something preventing the starter control circuit from engaging the starter. For instance, if the vehicle is in drive then there's a switch which will prevent power from going to the starter to engage it.
Now, this is assuming that the battery is fully charged, and internally is normal. The battery is charged by the alternator during the time that the engine is running. The alternator does this by producing a voltage usually above 14.7. The normal resting battery voltage for a car is 12.6. The slightly higher voltage produced by the alternator allows around to flow "backwards" through the battery which charges it. There is a voltage regulator on the alternator which prevents overcharging. So, let's say that you are taking a 200 mile drive. During this 200 miles the battery is fully charged by the alternator, and during the bulk of your drive the electrical means of the vehicle such as the fuel pump, a ignition system, fuel injectors, lights are all being electrically powered by the alternator. Let's say that you arrive at your destination 200 miles away and you park the car, and you go inside to sleep for the night. Unfortunately it was nighttime when you arrived and you left the headlights on. You sleep soundly throughout the night as the headlights are slowly drawing power from the battery. You go out the next morning, the headlights aren't on because the battery is now dead, but when you tried to start the car it will start. You may get absolutely nothing, or you may get a clicking sound. If you are able to jump start the car and goal for a long drive, or if you are able to put a battery charger on the battery for a few hours then the vehicle will start and run perfectly well. However, you will never figure out what happened unless you happen to notice that when you put the jumper cables on the vehicle headlights came on.
The headlight example is an easy one because of how frequently happens however there are a number of things that can place a load on the battery overnight causing it to be dead next morning. Some of the common ones are the glove compartment light, the trunk light, poorly installed aftermarket components such as remote starter's, alarm systems, lighting systems which don't automatically lose power when the ignition is turned to the off position, and aftermarket audio systems
The common, quick and dirty method I use for a no start condition is 1: check the battery voltage first. If the battery voltage with nothing on, and nothing running is less than 12 volts then the battery is currently under charged. It's also possible that the battery is no good but the best battery in the world which is under charge is still not going to get the job done. Now, if the battery has 12 volts for more showing on the voltmeter then the next thing I do is tried to crank/start the vehicle with the voltmeter still attached to the battery. If the voltage drops significantly then it suggests that the battery is either completely dead, or internally malfunctioning. At that point you need to determine how much current the battery is producing when an attempt at starting the engine is done. The only way to do this is with an ammeter. This is usually not available to the average layman. You are voltmeter may have the ability to measure amperage but only in the very low range, not the 75-200 amp range that the starter typically works in.
so, to rehash: measure the battery voltage with the vehicle just sitting there. If the voltage is less than 12 holds the battery is currently dead or internally malfunctioning and most certainly needs charging at the very least. At that point the first thing to do is charge the battery for a few hours. Once the battery has been charged an attempt at starting the vehicle should be made with the voltmeter still attached to the battery (watched the leads on the voltmeter as I have seen many of them eaten by the belt once the engine does start. If the engine does start once the battery has been charged it argues very strongly that there is something which is depleting the battery overnight such as some type of accessory been left on, or some aftermarket part which was either improperly installed, or malfunctioning after it was installed.
By the way, I would expect that you will need to charge or battery, or jumpstart this vehicle. Either way when you first put the charger on, or when you first put the jumper cables on, before you do anything else walk around the vehicle see if there are any lights on see if there is anything which started working which shouldn't be working such as sounds as the sound system, etc. Open the trunk and check to make sure that the trunk light doesn't stay on when you close the trunk, likewise with the glove compartment, and also some vehicles have Underhood lights which can deplete the battery overnight. Hopefully the dealership will be able to help you out however I remember problems like this been a major pain in the backside. You typically can't find any wiring diagram for aftermarket components and you are forced to guess most of the time at which wire goes where.
the common syndromes are:
1) if the battery is no good, usually the car will start when jump started by another vehicle, but an overnight charge will not allow the vehicle to start the next morning
2: if the starter is no good, then the engine will not crank regardless of whether the battery is fully charged or if you are being jump started.
3: if the alternator is no good, you can jump start the engine and it will run but the battery will not charge as the engine is running. So, you